Curse

Mystical · Nov 01, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

I've been on and off Tombing for awhile. I've just recently came back after getting all Warrior elites (that makes all Monk, Ele, Ranger and Warrior skills unlocked) and it's harder to get a group than a rank 3+. No it's not impossible, but I've had to sit around for ages to find one.

If I make my own group or not, the most common situation that happens is someone doesn't think the group has a chance and just quits (this is for balanced groups, no FotM here). I'm all for going back to the drawing board, as I'm sure alot of higer rank groups do, but these teams that don't request rank don't think it's worth it, or at least the majority don't.

Since I've gotten the game way back in June, I've been interested in PvP moreso then PvE. First time through Tombs (when no one gave two glances at rank) made it to the HoH albiet didn't win. I believe I'm an asset to any team, imo, since I'm rather deverse for a Rank 1. Yet, as the OP stated, rank is killing me. One or two fame every run? BS! I refuse to go to IWAY, so I guess I'll have to live with it.

Racthoh · Nov 01, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

If the elitists only want to play with their own kind so be it. Give us divisions, give us different levels of competition. I could make a pretty safe assumption and that say that if anyone did farm faction to get to rank 3 using IWAY, and were then forced to play against only r3-5 people... they wouldn't get much furthur. They would be forced to play against people who actually knew what they were doing, were using unique and powerful builds and actually earned the title bestowed upon them. It would force them to think outside the box and actually develop some skill to understand the concept of teamwork in PvP.

Quite frankly it is nearly impossible for me to get in a group because of my rank. I can play a decent monk, but quite frankly the concept of sitting there spamming every spell to heal myself is really not my idea of fun. I've been told I play an excellent warrior, on both the PvP and PvE grounds.

Thus, you get people like me, the ones forced to play IWAY simply because we want to play the damn game. Didn't shell out 50 bucks to sit around attempting to make a group, or beg a PUG to take you in under your wing. So, you could just stick with PvE because in most cases in takes a fraction of the time to party up, and kill a couple of hours with some random people. Maybe even make a friend or two. The competitive nature of PvP doesn't promote this sort of behaviour, which is probably why players boasting about their EXP totals in PvE doesn't always get them into their ideal group.

Akathrielah · Nov 01, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

People also need to look at it from the POV of someone trying to organize a group. There are FAR TOO MANY people who naturally assume that just because they beat the PvE game with a class combination that they are automatic geniuses with that class. And then there are others who believe simply because they can win 50/100/200 times in a row in RA/TA, that they are greatest players ever and are "only" hampered by rank. Then there are the few who made to the HoH once or twice and automatically assume that they know all that there is about PvP.

Sorry folks it doesn't work this way.

Is the fame system awkward? Yes.

Should it be removed? No.

There are a lot of nuances involved in tombs (and in GvG), that an inexperienced player would not know how to handle. When to push? When to fall back? Who is in danger of being overextended? Who IS overextended? Is the backline in danger? Does your build fair better in cramped conditions? How would you forced the enemy into converging if so? And one of the most basic concepts - Situational Awareness - what the hell is going on right now, and what can I/we do to make our team's life easier and the enemy's a hell of a lot harder? These are all examples of 8on8 BASICS, and way too many groups fail at concepts as simple as that.

kawaii_bat · Nov 01, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Rank should be not be only obtainable in Tombs.
You should be able to aquire some fame in the random PvP arenas too.
It's hard enough to get into Tombs as it is without fame.
How do they expect us to aquire it then?

lishi · Nov 01, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawaii_bat

Rank should be not be only obtainable in Tombs.
You should be able to aquire some fame in the random PvP arenas too.
It's hard enough to get into Tombs as it is without fame.
How do they expect us to aquire it then?

well if you think fame as "your experience in tombs" only tomb should give fame

lishi · Nov 01, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

as many people say there are many not ranked good player.

many of them it seem also posted in this topic.

1 + 1 = Contact them and make a group to get rank 3 ...

Symeon · Nov 01, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawaii_bat

You should be able to aquire some fame in the random PvP arenas too.

Trouble is, if u give fame to arenas, then no-one will do tombs anymore cos arenas is so much easier.

I can't actually think of an answer to this whole rank problem, but personally I think that a lot of people get to know tombs by doing it with their guilds, so just join guilds that do it and are good at it, and u get better and so does you rank.
And well if u don't want to join a guild u just want to do it all alone in groups of people u don't know, then tough! Only with the help of others that are good can you really succeed in tombs.
So if you won't get the help from others, suffer the consequences man! This game is all about Guilds and co-operation and helping each other! U feel u can't get rank cos teams ask for it? Only way to counter is join a good tombs guild and get some practice!

Samueldg · Nov 01, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Trouble is, if u give fame to arenas, then no-one will do tombs anymore cos arenas is so much easier.

I can't actually think of an answer to this whole rank problem, but personally I think that a lot of people get to know tombs by doing it with their guilds, so just join guilds that do it and are good at it, and u get better and so does you rank.
And well if u don't want to join a guild u just want to do it all alone in groups of people u don't know, then tough! Only with the help of others that are good can you really succeed in tombs.
So if you won't get the help from others, suffer the consequences man! This game is all about Guilds and co-operation and helping each other! U feel u can't get rank cos teams ask for it? Only way to counter is join a good tombs guild and get some practice!

not true...

if everyone went to random to farm fame me and my guild would be in tombs day and night...

winning the HOH and getting the chest... hello yummy!
maybe after three or so months we would taper down after an inventory full of crystalline swords

perhaps we would take a break to hit uw/and fow if we faced a american team and could get there before we lost favor...

ahhhh yea I hope your right and I hope they put fame in random arena..

Symeon · Nov 01, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samueldg

not true...

if everyone went to random to farm fame me and my guild would be in tombs day and night...

ahhhh yea I hope your right and I hope they put fame in random arena..

You can't give damn fame to random arena think of all the noobs doing it

And yeah it will mean everyone goes to arenas and no tombs anymore, because if u can get fame in arenas it is so much easier, if u want quick fame/rank then u would do it - only if u wanted the chest jackpot

would u go tombs, or if u simply wanted to do it for fun with guildies.
It's out of the question. Maybe Team Arenas is another story , but definitely not random. In any case, if fame were given to any arena it would have to be much less than tombs.
Also, tombs is meant to be a global competition to win the HoH and take the favor of the gods, and we can go to fow and uw. Thing is, most people who fight in tombs and win aren't going to go to fow or uw - they are doing it for personal stuff - fame, rank, and the chest jackpot. Give fame to arenas and they're all gonna go there for cheap fame - where's our people to win favor now

It would just mean unbalance, you can't do it.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 01, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I don't care about rank, but competence, and the easiest way to find out is asking them questions in the whisper, or when they join. Not just "show emote"
1. How long can you stay?? If less than 90mins insta-kick
2. Do you have ts/vent and a mic?? If not insta-kick
3. What skills you been packing for X char in X build?? If they have mending or something else ridiculous - insta-kick
4. If war that says doesn't like to call (sure sign of too much iway) - insta-kick
5. If someone says, I prefer this skill set-up because I'm use to it, and I don't "want" to carry ****skill that you want - insta-kick
6. anyone that says "gogogogogogogo" while you're planning - insta-kick
7. Anyone that doesn't speak during planing on ts/vent - insta-kick
8. Anyone that's constantly brb or afk - insta-kick
9. Anyone that says, ok I'll go an unlock that skill now - insta-kick
10. Anyone that says I'm only 10 fame from rank 6 - insta-kick (not because R6 is important, but cause they "think" it is important)

unienaule · Nov 01, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

There are a lot of nuances involved in tombs (and in GvG), that an inexperienced player would not know how to handle. When to push? When to fall back? Who is in danger of being overextended? Who IS overextended? Is the backline in danger? Does your build fair better in cramped conditions? How would you forced the enemy into converging if so? And one of the most basic concepts - Situational Awareness - what the hell is going on right now, and what can I/we do to make our team's life easier and the enemy's a hell of a lot harder? These are all examples of 8on8 BASICS, and way too many groups fail at concepts as simple as that.

The problem lies in that you were not BORN knowing all that stuff. Yes, it's a problem, and not so much with your attitude. Now everyone isn't a noob, so the noobs have next to no chance to learn unless they can form a dedicated guild team who doesn't mind losing a million times. What IS needed is a "noobs only" HoH-type arena with a rank limit of 2 or 3.

BurningPants · Nov 01, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I dont know if someone has already suggested it(I've read about 4 or 5 pages of the thread) but why don't they implement a Rank or Fame based arena area like tombs, except only having these arenas accesable by people of a certain rank. So for example all the Rank 0-3 would fight in one arena against other players of their Rank range and still gain fame for victories. Same would occur for those who are Rank 4-7 and 8-10. These would obviously have to be 8v8 arenas where you can form PuGs.

This way, players who's skill which is not representative of their rank(for example a really good player with a low rank) will get more fame to increase their rank to boost them up into a higher ranked arena, while a player who, for some reason or another, has a higher rank but is not that good of a player will remain in that arena until they develop more PvP skill.

Players of all ranks would still be able to get together into a common arena(ToPK).

Apologies again if this has already been posted, but I don't see why it isn't focused upon.

FFF_WarRaven · Nov 02, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningPants

I dont know if someone has already suggested it(I've read about 4 or 5 pages of the thread) but why don't they implement a Rank or Fame based arena area like tombs, except only having these arenas accesable by people of a certain rank. So for example all the Rank 0-3 would fight in one arena against other players of their Rank range and still gain fame for victories. Same would occur for those who are Rank 4-7 and 8-10. These would obviously have to be 8v8 arenas where you can form PuGs.

This way, players who's skill which is not representative of their rank(for example a really good player with a low rank) will get more fame to increase their rank to boost them up into a higher ranked arena, while a player who, for some reason or another, has a higher rank but is not that good of a player will remain in that arena until they develop more PvP skill.

Players of all ranks would still be able to get together into a common arena(ToPK).

Apologies again if this has already been posted, but I don't see why it isn't focused upon.

/signed

:::End Transmission:::

glenn_rolfe · Nov 02, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

But that would be against the basic concept of Hall of Heroes. Tombs is about Hall of Heroes, gaining control of it, and holding it so the Gods look favourably on you. This is it's premise. This is the storyline aspect of HoH.

Trying to have mini-HoH is really not what Anet intended. Go play team areans if that is what you want to do, or ask Anet to make a 6x6 or 8x8 competition arenas.

The system is fine. The complaint is about the people playing it. Same complaint I have. You have to earn your rank, and that's fair enough. Do some hard yards, or some cheap ones through IWAY, but if that is what you do, you'll be uninvited very quick in competent groups.

Easiest way for those trying to earn some fame, but don't want to run IWAY or have an active HoH guild, is to make your own teams. Noone ever checks the emote on the guy that makes the team ;-)

Big_L · Nov 02, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Having trouble finding groups? The best advice I can give you (and its what I did) is unlock as many skills as you can. Learn to play every profession, so when you see a group saying "we need [some character] that can [do this]," you can fill that spot. Play PvE to unlock skills, use faction on weapon upgrades, and use gold in PvE to buy unidentified runes. Thats the fastest way to unlock items. I had every skill in the game unlocked before I had 50 fame.

Also, and its been said, but USE YOUR FRIENDS LIST!! Did your PUG win a few rounds today? great! add them all to friends and do it again tomorrow! You'll get even farther because you'll have played together before. Pretty soon, rather than sitting in districts looking for PUGs, you'll have your friends saying "we need a [character], wanna join." Or, if you find a group with a couple open slots, whisper a couple friends who you know are skilled, and it will get the group going faster.

This is a very community oriented game. All about player interraction and cooperation. Making friends will help you improve much faster, and it will be much more fun. Play with your friends with any build that you guys think is fun. Just make sure it is setup to beat the FOTM, and you'll go much farther than any IWAY build and it'll be a lot more fun!

Many things play a role in skill: experience, organization, intelligence, and many others. Rank = Experience, and despite what anyone says, experience is by far the biggest contribution to skill. I'm sorry, but you didn't really refute that rank does not equal skill (or at the least, contribute greatly). Making sure your group is organized, and smart will improve your chances in tombs, but making sure your players are experienced (have high rank) will improve your chances much more. And this is proven by the fact that rank 6 groups win hall while unranked groups dont, despite how much you organize them.

You keep telling me to "try it." Well, I win hall all the time by doing it the way I do it now, so why don't YOU try it, and tell us if you win halls all the time with rank 0 players. We're not the ones complaining, so if you want change, you do the work.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 02, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

The R6+ team I played in yesterday had a VIM monk using rebirth (even after getting a skillbar check before going in he replaced shields up with rebirth!)
"Rebirth is better against IWAY"

And you don't think the other team saw it and started trash talking us.

Melkor Pvp · Nov 02, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I'm currently rank 5 (with something like 800 fame) and I've got something around 140k faction. I've been playing in Tombs for about a month now. I've played with a few different guild groups, and have finally settled down to actually joining one. The groups, if not the best players ever, communicate well and most players have most skills unlocked. I've even won halls a few times. The most I've held it for is seven rounds. I started off with only the basic skills for each class unlocked. Now, I've got four classes completely unlocked (all the casting classes), and I can play most ranger setups (except ones running odd elites).

Well, perhaps some of you who are trying to get started in Tombs will learn from my story of how I got to where I am now.

I started off in the American districts just trying to get a group with whoever would take me. I experimented with IWAY as an orders necro and got a couple fame. I then tried a few other groups with random people, some got on Ventrilo or Teamspeak but most didn't. Slowly, I started to gain a few fame. One very good run set me up with rank 2. Getting rank 3, however, was very tough until a friend of mine started to get me in good groups. I discovered a certian vent server that always had halls groups getting started. As I played, I made more and more contacts. For me, the key was monking. Up until that point, the only experiment monking was with a PvE monk. I went in tombs with a basic monk build and found I was rather good at it. Now, I can generally Whisper at least 4 people to ask if they need members for a group. Frequently I get whispers asking me if I need a group.

I still dont have my wolf yet. But soon, I shall get it

BurningPants · Nov 03, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

But that would be against the basic concept of Hall of Heroes. Tombs is about Hall of Heroes, gaining control of it, and holding it so the Gods look favourably on you. This is it's premise. This is the storyline aspect of HoH.

Trying to have mini-HoH is really not what Anet intended. Go play team areans if that is what you want to do, or ask Anet to make a 6x6 or 8x8 competition arenas.

The system is fine. The complaint is about the people playing it. Same complaint I have. You have to earn your rank, and that's fair enough. Do some hard yards, or some cheap ones through IWAY, but if that is what you do, you'll be uninvited very quick in competent groups.

Sorry, I should have said that the ranked arenas(except for ToPK ofcourse) should not affect favour.

But see, that's the problem, 4v4 combat is not even close to what 8v8 is. There is no easy way for new PvPers to practice without having to wait to be chosen by a group that doesn't care about rank. Now these new PvPers can form their own group and head in, but most likely than not, they will be killed within the first few matches.

If you do at least implement a team 8v8 or even a random 8v8 arena you will be giving these players somewhere to practice and actually form some type of strategy that can actually be effective in ToPK. Perhaps you can implement a maximum rank on these new arenas where if you hit rank 2 or 3, you will be prevented from fighting in that arena anymore and will have no chooice but to fight in the tombs.

My idea here is that players should not have to wait 10-15 minutes to play the game they want to play, and by implementing some sort of other 8v8 tombs style arena, at least you will be giving them something to work towards. Plus it would be a good oppurtunity to make new friends who are around the same skill level as the player is. The concept here is to give them a foot-hold into PvP combat and guide them along so that they can actually compete when they enter the tombs.

tomcruisejr · Nov 03, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

burningpants' inputs are the best ever in this thread.

no signs of elitism. newcomers and old timers who are hindered by /rank coz they were sucked in by pve/gvg/nonfamed pvp, want to play their favorite classes and wont be swayed to play fotms in tombs will surely be happy if his ideas are implemented.

newborn · Nov 03, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

[troll] I tried to join a tombs group yesterday for the first time of my life. And... you guessed right : it never happened. IWAY this, IWAY that, whatsyarank, etc. I find this very sad that new comers can't play in tournament unless they use a "flavor of the month" build. Wasn't GW supposed to offer diversity and strategy? Blah that! [/troll]